OpEd: In Butterfly Labs Case, FTC Shows Little Regard For ...

Butterfly Labs is operational and issuing refunds. I just received HUGE refund in Bitcoin.

If you're owed a refund, keep an eye out for correspondence from BFL. I just received an email from them along with a huge refund in Bitcoin. What a great day to receive an exchange-rate-based refund!
EDIT: people are (understandably) asking for proof. Happy to show a mod the txid/emails if interested. Also, just check BFL's website: http://i.imgur.com/T6tyyEK.png
EDIT: Although I don't really have anything to gain by offering proof, I also don't see any harm in it. Redacted email from BFL support: http://i.imgur.com/MC0N3O9.png
I responded to Dennis and he replied that he was actually very happy to start being able to refund customers today.
submitted by siclik to Bitcoin [link] [comments]



Bitcoin Mining Company Butterfly Labs (BFL) Reopens; Starts Issuing Refunds

Bitcoin Mining Company Butterfly Labs (BFL) Reopens; Starts Issuing Refunds submitted by tonewsto to ToNewsTo [link] [comments]

Idea | Tip Nano to creators

Hey guys, my name is Tolik and I'm new to Nano.
I would like to tell you a bit about myself, and then about some ideas that I would like to share with you :)
I'm a content creator form Israel, and I have about 65k subscribers over my 3 channels. I'm also the first Israeli partnered on Twitch and been doing that for 8 years now.
Had a lot of fun with it for the first few years, playing my favorite games and earning good money, and eventually burning out hating the game that got me all my following. Our (Israeli) community exploded on youtube, but to make the most of it you need to make mindless trendy content, playing trendy and pretty childish games. I did that for a while, but it was too hard for my mind and I ended up burning out hard stepping away for a long while.
Back in 2013 I first stumbled upon the world of crypto and realized the potential of the blockchain and the implementation of that technology in our world. Not enough to buy enough to get rich, but I never even considered that it could get to the volumes it got to now. In 2017 when it exploded, I realized I had some leftover coins from 2013-14 and cashed out a few thousand dollars, with the pain it could have been millions if I was a little more aware. Oh Well.
A few years ago, I got into the world of self-development and got a new perspective on life. Doing only what I love and grooming a small but good community on youtube, not caring about trends, views, and money in my pocket.
A few days ago, a colleague of mine started to promote some unknown coin to his child viewers, basically, the premise is a coin that you could mine on your phone. Immediately I had some red flags popping off my mind, especially because he promoted some shady CSGO gambling sites that I didn't even want to look into. He of course had his promotion code for registering to the gambling site, and using the mentioned crypto (downloading the app).
If you can mine it on your phone, what would stop you using an expensive setup and just dominate the market? The fact that he advertised it as a get rich scheme, and the fact that it's a referral pyramid network, does not seem safe.
After looking into it I did not see any promise, especially after I found so many altcoins with big communities that his crypto didn't have, information that did not add up, and a bunch of weird stuff going on.
Because I started researching the crypto world (after so many years not being aware of what happened to it), youtube started suggesting me videos about it, one of them was u/SonderDev 's nanoPaint (Sorry I made SpongeBobs eye red) and started doing some research on nano and the technology. For 3 days I devoured all the info I can, reading most of the posts here on reddit, and joining on Discord and TG. I again felt that butterfly feeling in my gut, the one I felt so many years ago when I found out about bitcoin (and some other rare occasions). So much potential, and I kind of feel I am already late to the party, and yet, my mind can't stop thinking about what is possible.
Now to the good stuff! Donations(tips) to streamers and content creators were always a huge part of our revenue. But we had a lot of problems with it - High fees, making small donations pretty much impossible, and the fear of someone charging you back and having you pay the fees for every donation that got charged back. I had someone give me about $2k for the span of two months with small donations, ended up charging all that money back, and having me pay $10 for each of his donations, even if they were under that amount. PayPal is pretty crazy.
Also, If you consider something like Patreon (a monthly donation for a project or a creator you like for benefits) they also charge extra for their fee, and people can still charge you back, even though they will handle it, you still give them the benefits. Twitch takes a huge cut for subscribers (user pays $4.99 and I get as little as $1.70) and youtube are getting about 30% for their cut.
See where I'm going with this? As proof of concept, a simple donation website/app could be made. You send the creator any amount of nano, it pops up on the screen for everyone to see. People would love the idea to impact the stream with as little money the creator allows. That would start up a conversation, people would start seeing the technology in action, how fast and feeless everything is going.
Not to mention an integrated service could be made that is similar to delegate.it (allows users to do tasks for nano/fiat) in this instance, the tasks could be - follow the creator on Twitter, Instagram, like his posts and whatever else he decides, and it could be cheap, because people would be doing it to pop up on stream and help the creator, not for the actual fiat amount of the nano given. killing 3 birds with one stone. Promoting nano, allowing everybody a voice to a degree they choose, and promoting himself to his viewers.
If this works, we could either go to one of the 2 biggest platforms (StreamLabs and StreamElements (who are Israeli and I know the 2 founders personally)) and they would integrate it to their already build system, or develop something to solely promote nano. We could reach out to smaller streamers that have small dedicated communities, not many donations and revenue coming in and allow them to use our system to promote their content and interact with their viewers.
A few more ideas I have in mind for a project like that:
For the donations (tips)
• Having different donation alerts for different QR codes that you scan. Similarly to what NanoPaint accomplishes, we could have a different QR code to scan for an alert that the user chooses to show up.
• Coloring the Camera frame - similarly to NanoPaint, drawing pixels on the frame of the camera of the streamer, changing it in real-time for nano.
• Having text to speech for the alert
• Have your donation impact the streamer in AR (putting something on his face or head).
Crowd Funding
• Donation goal that will make a purchase only if it gets there - setting up an X day goal to buy a new GPU for example, and having people contribute to it, and if it's reached, it automatically makes the order from amazon or wherever (having the data safe with our service), and if it's not - fully refunding the users. It could be a daily goal for pizza or whatever they choose. It will allow integration with businesses that would work with us.
• Stream goals - if we get to X Nano this stream, 24 hour stream tomorrow! If we won't, get your nano back! Would encourage people to participate even if they are not sure the goal will be met, have the assurance that the full amount would be refunded if it did not get there.
• Challenges - starting a bounty challenge, for example, have an Ace in CSGO (kill all 5 enemies) and get X amount of nano. If you didn't, money goes back. the crowd could vote on it having more interaction and validating if the challenge is complete.
• Have people engage with polls in real-time with nano, could scan their option to vote, and even get refunded if their option did not win, encouraging them to vote for their favorite option, even if it seems unlikely to win.
User Battles
• Having people start a challenge of a game, in an app or on the web, or perhaps even something random like gambling, and having it appear on stream for everybody to witness. Maybe even challenging the streamer for a nano incentive or someone else who watches.
• Having an on-screen chat that changes the colors and design of the people who donated with nano, and linked their account. more incentive to donate.
Stream Sponsors
• Having a rotating banner on-screen at all times, allowing users to pay nano to show their banner. As an auction or a price set from the creator.
Most of these ideas occurred to me as I was writing this post, and I'm sure we could think of better ones with some effort. Some of them are already implemented on the websites that were mention above, however, having the power and speed of the nano is a game-changer IMHO.
So why am I writing this post? First, just to share with you and get to know you better, maybe spark an idea or a motivation for anyone to do something good for nano.
Second, money is tight now, moved back to my parents due to the pandemic, hard to find a decent job as we have more than %20 of the people in Israel looking for a job and as I mentioned before the content I make is not very profitable. I can't afford to invest money in this idea, and I lack the skills to do it myself. So maybe if it's good someone else could.
If, however, someone would be inclined to help make this a reality, I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, investment of time, or money in testing this out. I have a dedicated community with thousands of people that will be aware of nano if we'll do it, years of experience in this field, and not to mention that I'm in good relations with most of the other content creators and platforms here in Israel, and some international.
Discord: ToLy#2657
Feel free to DM me at any time :)
Nice to meet you, and thank you for reading.
submitted by tolikr94 to nanocurrency [link] [comments]

Addressing the many concerns related to Obelisk

Why make ASICs at all?

Our blog has a longer post on the subject, but the ultimate answer is that GPU mining is very insecure. For the vast majority of GPU mined coins out there (including Sia), it is the case that there are multiple, if not many, individuals who operate enough GPUs to execute a 51% attack against the coin all by themselves. There are some very large Ethereum GPU farms out there, and they are a threat to all small GPU-mined coins. (our market cap is a factor of 50 smaller than Ethereum - we are a small coin). And it's not just Ethereum farms to be afraid of, there are massive GPU farms dedicated to machine learning as well, and other big-data related use cases. All of those are potential sources for a 51% attack. Even worse, if the price of the coin tanks following such an attack, the attacker has nothing to lose, because the core purpose of their hardware is unrelated to Sia, and unaffected by a change in price.
Though it sounds terrible and unintuitive, a single centralized entity running ASICs would be a much more secure situation than this. Because with a single central ASIC entity, you get two huge advantages:
  1. There's only 1 entity capable of performing a 51% attack. This is much better than having multiple entities that are each individually capable of performing a 51% attack.
  2. If the price of the coin falls, the entity that has all of the hardware loses a lot of money. That hardware isn't good for anything besides Sia mining, so that entity is quite invested in propping up the siacoin price.
We chose ASICs over GPUs because even the worst case scenario is more secure and better for the coin than the situation with GPU mining.
But we also did not want a single entity owning and operating all of the ASICs. That's when we realized, if we were ASIC manufacturers ourselves, we could guarantee that at least one entity is selling chips to the larger community. The unfortunate fact is that either way, there is going to be a small number of chip manufacturers who have the power to sell chips to the community. Even so, this is a better situation than what you get with GPU mining.
We are making ASICs so that we can guarantee the first batch of ASICs will make it to the Sia community. Without that, we have no idea if the first batch of ASICs will be sold to the public or hoarded by some greedy investors who were able to pay the full price of manufacturing up-front.

Why are you doing the presale so early?

We, put simply, don't have enough cash even to do the early development of the chips. We need financing to pay for chip development.
Traditionally, we would find some private investors, have them front some millions, and in return promise them a very good deal on some hardware. The private investors would get the first stab at buying ASICs, they'd get a huge chunk, and they'd get them at an exclusive deal for taking on the risk early. We actually had private investors come forward offering this to us, with enough money to fund the full development and manufacture of the first batch of chips - this isn't a hypothetical, it's a real offer that the Sia team received.
This didn't seem fair to us. When we finally did get to the point where the miners were ready to be sold to the community, we would have to offer the community a worse deal. Less risky, but ultimately it would mean that the community was excluded from the opportunity of participating early, and the result is a huge chunk of the chips going to some private investors.
Such a situation is still better than GPU mining, but it didn't seem like the best that we could do. We felt that we could do better by opening the early presale to everyone.

Why not accept credit cards?

Payment processors are not friendly to Bitcoin products. We contacted Stripe and were told point-blank that they would not process payments for cryptocurrency miners. We appreciate everyone who pointed us towards Stripe as a bitcoin-friendly company, but they gave us a direct no.
Paypal has a long history of freezing merchant accounts with little warning, and when they do so they freeze your existing money in addition to freezing incoming payments - we would be unable to pay our bills if Paypal did this to us, and it would unquestionably cause delays. Visa and MasterCard are not much better in terms of track record.
Losing access to our accounts would unquestionably cause delays. ASIC hardware is already well known to suffer from serious delays, and we need to limit our exposure to delays.
We are in an industry that is unfortunately fraught with fraud. With revenue-generated devices such as miners, criminals are much more likely to try to target these devices as a way to cash in on stolen credit cards, stolen identities, hacked bank accounts, etc. The fraud rates are staggering, and as a result most payment processors outright refuse to deal with it. We are aware that Bitmain is partnered with Paypal, though we don't know the details behind how that came to be.

Why not accept Siacoin?

This was a harder decision. We could quite easily choose to accept siacoin, however we fear that Siacoin is not ready to handle such a massive presale. The market cap and daily volume of Bitcoin is a factor of 100 times as large as the Siacoin market cap and volume. Moving millions or tens of millions of dollars through Bitcoin is not likely to make much of a dent. Siacoin on the other hand, a sudden sell order for millions of dollars would likely tank the price. That not only means the ecosystem is unhappy with us, it also means that we might only be able to sell $2499 of siacoin for $2200.
A lot of people have accused us of not having confidence in our own coin. Unfortunately, this is true. Even at a $500 million market cap, Sia is not ready to handle a presale of this size. It's a pragmatic decision based on the fact that we don't want to dump our own coin. We know that people will be selling siacoin to buy the miners anyway, but we still feel that this situation is much better than us accepting siacoin directly.
This decision was a disappointment for us as well. We would love to accept siacoin, and if we weren't talking about processing millions of dollars in a single day, we absolutely would be accepting siacoin. And, as Sia continues growing up, the concerns above will become less and less.

What about this 5% gains/losses stuff?

Our intention was never to play fishy financial games with our users, and honestly this isn't even something that crossed our minds as a potential problem point. I think a big part of the issue was that people did not realize we will be converting to US dollars as fast as possible - we will be doing the conversion in minutes or hours as long as we can keep up with the order volume.
The rationale is very simple. If the price plummets before we are able to convert the Bitcoin, we won't have enough money to create the hardware. We really don't expect this to matter, because we don't expect the price to swing by more than $100 (which is what would be required) in the few hours that we're going to be sitting on the BTC. If it does, we'll need more coins or we can't produce the hardware - our costs are in dollars, which means we need to end up with the right amount of dollars in our account at the end of the day.
The original stance on not returning gains was also very simple. There's no transparency into when we sell the coins. If we sell the coins within 60 minutes of receiving them, and then 4 hours later there's a huge surge in the price, we will almost certainly have users emailing us and posting about how we owe them a refund. We won't have that refund, because we'll have sold the coins before the price rise.
There's not much we can do to provide transparency into this either. And we're likely to get requests for refunds even if it takes 3 months for Bitcoin to rise by 5%. This promise of returning gains that we've put forward is going to be a massive headache, because we're not expecting to have any gains, even if the price goes up by that much we'll have likely converted to USD faster than that. Our whole goal is to convert to USD as fast as possible.
We're sorry that we have to go through this headache at all. If we could get set up with a processor like Stripe, we could accept both Bitcoin and USD and let them deal with the conversion process, slippage risk, and all the other headache associated with using multiple currencies.

Why shipping a full 12 months away?

Before we set out to make Sia miners, we did a study of companies who had previously sold and pre-sold Bitcoin miners. This included talking to both Avalon and Butterfly Labs, and talking to professionals and advisors who have shipped hardware successfully in other industries. The core piece of advice we got was pretty consistent: expect delays. Expect lots of delays, and expect them to come from the most absurd setbacks. (Example: one of the people we talked to had to delay their product because there was a global shortage of power supplies, and they had to wait in line behind billion dollar companies to get some).
Our projections indicate that if all goes well, we should be able to ship the miners in 6-8 months. Nothing we are doing is new. Plenty of companies have gone through the process of developing a chip, manufacturing it, putting it in a box, and then shipping it to users. There is almost no innovation risk here. Sia's PoW algorithm is deliberately very ASIC friendly, even more than Bitcoin. We have advisors who have gone through this process before, and the types of challenges facing us are well known.
6-8 months is reasonable, except that every single person we've talked to has told us that unexpected delays is a guarantee, and that by nature of being unexpected, there's not really any way to prevent them by planning around them. Delays are just inherent to shipping hardware. So we chose to set our target at 12 months.
We will ship the miners as soon as they are ready. If we are a few months ahead of schedule, and have somehow managed to avoid the foretold delays, we will ship them months ahead of schedule. But we want our users to have a realistic understanding of the expected delays. We've baked a generous amount of time for setbacks into our shipping date. We'll almost certainly need at least some of it.

Why $2499?

Making chips is very expensive. We have to sell thousands of units to cover the cost of the chips. A nontrivial percentage of the price is going to go towards chassis, shipping, power supply, control board, fans, etc. Those costs are relatively the same even if we put in fewer chips, which means the total percentage of our budget going towards chips drops significantly. If we cut the price in half, we'll have to sell roughly three times as many units to break even on the cost of the chips. If we cut the price in half again, we'd need to sell a completely unreasonable number of units to break even on the cost of the chips. It's unfortunate, but the fixed costs of chip manufacture means that we really need vast majority of the price of the unit to be spent on chips, otherwise we simply won't be able to sell enough units.
There is a second reason as well. As stated in the section above, the industry is plagued by delays an unexpected expenses. We need a healthy budget to plan around potential setbacks, because we've been guaranteed that there will be multiple significant setbacks by those who have gone through this process before. If we bring down the price of the unit, we will also be reducing the amount of wiggle room we have for disaster if suddenly we have to replace parts, re-do designs, or otherwise perform expensive adjustments to our plans.

Are you guys qualified to be working on hardware?

Zach is a mechanical engineer, I've been in the Bitcoin space since before ASICs started shipping, and we have advisors who have successfully shipped hardware before. The team that is designing the chips for the miner has designed chips and shipped chips for Bitcoin miners previously - they are familiar with the whole process, and have done it before. The people in charge of designing the PCB board and other aspects of the miner are also all experienced with their respective tasks. We will be facilitating frequent and strong communications between everyone working on the various components of the miner.
The ultimate answer is that the Sia development team is not qualified to be making this type of hardware. However, the Sia development team is not the team working on the hardware. Most of the heavy lifting is being performed by teams with lots of experience in this industry, including experience that is directly related to cryptocurrency miners.
What we are doing is not new. Dozens of cryptocurrency miners have been created and shipped in the past, and we are not starting from day zero. We have many advantages over the previous rounds of pre-sale cryptocurrency miners, but the biggest is that it's no longer the wild west of hardware design. There is a standard, and there are tried-and-true methods for making reliable cryptocurrency miners. We get to fall back on the mistakes and successes of the many miners that have been built previously, and we will be leaning heavily on teams and people that have direct experience in this field as opposed to doing everything ourselves.

Does this mean that Sia is getting less attention from the developers?

Sia right now has four full time employees. Myself, Zach, Luke, and Johnathan. Zach was hired in June 2017, less than one month ago. He is not a programmer.
Luke and Johnathan will continue with the same responsibilities that they've always had. They helped out a little bit in setting up the website, and in setting up a secure database to process orders + payment information, however the majority of their time has been focused on Sia even as we set up this presale. Going forward, they will be almost entirely uninvolved in Obelisk.
I have had to allocate about 25% of my time to Obelisk. Slightly more this week, due to the PR meltdown we had from the initial announcement. But most of my time is still going towards Sia. Most people know I work over 100 hours per week (some weeks will eclipse 120), and that a quarter of my time is not a small amount.
Zach is closer to 50% Sia, 50% Obelisk at this point. We're expecting that to tone down once the presale is over - much of this time has been spent with banks, with lawyers, with payment processors, and we won't have to do that beyond the initial setup phase. Zach and myself will still be having weekly conversations with every part of the Obelisk supply chain, including the chip designers, chip manufacturers, control board designers, the miner assembly teams, and the fulfillment centers, so even after the presale there will be effort going towards Obelisk.
But nobody on the Sia team is doing chip design, nobody is doing control board design, most of the really heavy work is being done by experienced teams and suppliers that we've found and already spent weeks vetting and verifying. We incorporated Obelisk as a separate company precisely so that Obelisk would eventually have a completely separate team.
And finally, as Obelisk is wholly owned by Nebulous, a successful hardware company does mean revenue and income for the Sia team. Cryptocurrency mining tends to be low margin, so tens of millions in revenue for Obelisk does not necessarily millions in funding for the Sia team. But it is something, and it will give us more time to get the storage platform to the next levels of maturity.


I know that a lot of you are concerned about the miner presale that we are conducting. I hope that this post has helped to alleviate those concerns. I hope it makes sense why we are doing a public presale, instead of seeking private investment until we have a full prototype. I hope this post has clarified our decisions around payment methods, and around our price point. I hope you feel more confident that this is something we will be able to pull off. And finally, I hope I've reassured you guys that Sia is still our primary focus, and that we haven't suddenly pivoted into being a hardware company.
We are ultimately doing this to provide better security to the Sia network. GPU mined coins are frighteningly insecure, and Sia is now large enough where there is serious money on the line. We are doing this to gain security, and also to ensure as much decentralization as possible when it comes to chip manufacture.
We are typically viewed as one of the most reputable teams in cryptocurrency, and I know it's why a lot of you are here. We hope that the Sia ASIC that we are going to be manufacturing and selling strengthens this reputation, but ultimately we will not find out until the miners are actually being shipped.
We continue to be excited about this new product. We truly do feel that ASICs are the right direction for Sia, and we also feel that we are doing the right thing by bringing the opportunity to own a Sia ASIC to the broader Sia community. We are sorry for the fallout from our sloppy original announcement, and we hope that we have since made up for it.
Finally, we hope that you are interested in buying a miner. Even if we only sell a small batch, ASICs are going to utterly dominate the hashrate of Sia going forward. This is an egalitarian sale where everyone has equal opportunity to buy a miner - there's no cap, and we will ensure that small buyers are not shut out by larger buyers in any way.
submitted by Taek42 to siacoin [link] [comments]

Breaking! KnCMiner Refund Queue is COMPLETELY FAKE! These guys engaging in, without doubt, criminal activity. Please do not ignore this!

As most of you know, I have been keeping the community updated with the latest KnCMiner.com under handed practices and tricks.
If you need to catch up read the following posts:
Post A - Lies to keep customers from refund, only to backtrack on the promise
Post B - Censoring customers who are pointing out that the units they are getting for used
Post C - Sends out old used and broken units to customers
Post D - Scamming Customers out of 2 for 1 and Plan B
Most recently was how they screwed hundred and thousands of their customers out of Plan B and/or their 2 for 1 Neptune.
Over the course of the last few months I have created many contacts within the community and received messages from others who have also been victims of KnCMiner.
In the last 24 hours, I received a message from someone that works for KnCMiner, informing me that the claim of processing refunds taking so long because of the number of request, is completely false!
The tipster provided me with evidence to prove that he works for them, and as promised, I can not jeopardize his job by revealing anything about his identity, but I can tell you that there was absolutely no doubt he works for them
The tipster indicated to me that an executive decision was made to stop processing refunds, because Bitcoins had reached a low value, and handing out refunds would be too costly. As a result of this, the company started to claim that was there was a long queue for processing refunds and as a result, refunds will take much longer.
They are intentionally hold back refunds, waiting for BTC to go up, before they start processing them. These guys are Criminals.
The tipster told me I will find all the evidence I need online and through the forms; he told me just look at the chart of BTC Value and when Refund orders stop being processed.
Here is what I found for evidence:
Take a look at the when the price of BTC Drops to a long time low:
BTC Chart
You will notice that BTC takes a dive the start of April.
Now Take a look at just a few the customers, who to this day still haven't received a refund. What you will notice, few if any refunds get processed after the BTC Crash:
Another Note, is another excuse they are using now, is that they are too busy with the Neptunes and need to focus on that, instead of refunds.
We are currently in the production and shipping phase with the Neptune miners and our main priority and focus is on shipping the miners to customers as quickly as possible. Due to this extremely busy period the processing of refunds will be taking longer. - Kurt
Guys, we need the community to come together on this one, not only for the sake of justice, but for the future of our community.
------------------------------------------- UPDATE -------------------------------------------
I have been accused by the Lead Mod of /bitcoinmining HighBeamHater, to be making up stuff.
He decided to come over to /bitcoin and act like he was in touch with the state of affairs concerning KnCMiner.
His callousness, showed he was indifferent to the victims of criminals over at KnCMiner, who lost large sums of money. Calling them, "Sour grapes."
A few things to clear up right away.
First off
-Batch 0 Neptunes where $10,000 USD
-Batch 1 Neptunes where $13,000 USD
-The No Refund Policy was quietly implemented, prior to this, their refund policy was, I quote:
"All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment".
Here is the evidence KnCMiner deleted and tried to hide: Evidence Link
Everyone was under the impression and rightfully so, that you could cancel your order, as long as they had not shipped your order yet. However, that was another underhanded trick by KnCMiner. KnCMiner is refusing all Refunds, even orders whose status is Paid, and are no where near being shipped.
A lot of people, did not cancel their orders because of the two incentives KnCMiner offered. It was only After they had started their Processing and shipping phase, did they state that you can only pick one or the other.
Here is evidence that customers were mislead:
submitted by BostonHelper to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

The final chapter to that shit hole that was KnCMiner. Beating the low standards Butterflies set and some.

As most of you know, I have been keeping the community updated with the latest KnCMiner.com under handed practices and tricks.
If you need to catch up read the following posts:
Post A - Lies to keep customers from refund, only to backtrack on the promise
Post B - Censoring customers who are pointing out that the units they are getting for used
Post C - Sends out old used and broken units to customers
Post D - Scamming Customers out of 2 for 1 and Plan B
Post E - KnCMiner victimizes Customers
Post F - Lies about pending queue
In one of the final chapters of the over ~100,000,000.00 dollar scams that KnCMiner and its owners, Marcus Erlandsson, Michael Unnebäck, and Sam Cole, the victims of this international crime, try to come to terms with everything that unfolded in the last year in a half.
Using the hardware that the customers paid for, KnCMiner made a big profit using them for personal gain, as the months passed and the hardware lost its value, KnCMiner finally decided to start sending out some of Neptune to meet some of the initial orders that were placed, while continuing to using the majority of the hardware for their gain. As days turned into weeks, weeks into months, KnCminer would make false press releases offering MWYW, 2for1, etc... Having CoinDesk in their pockets, they used them as a main source of aveunue to press their agenda and false promises. KnCMiner exploited the lack of international laws that protect consumers, to completely screw over everyone that had placed an order with them.
Refusing Refunds, and claiming that they are busy working, KnCMiner went silent for the remainder of the coming winter. Wanting to take advantage of the cold winter, KnCMiner stopped sending any miners out, and instead used the opportunity to use the cold weather to mine at max profit.
Now, after a year an a half, some customers are still awaiting their shipments, while those who finally received them, had control boards that were stripped down, and second hand, Miners that did not work or had missing parts, making mining impossible since the ran at very hot temperatures, meant that even those that received their 1for2 order, were little better off than those that did not.
What KnCMiner leaves behind, are customers who tragically are still holding on to hope, and those who have already been victimized seeking some sort of justice, whether it be through the law, or through other means.
In the end, the only winners here are the now wealthy criminals that are the founders of KnCminer. One can only hope, that justice comes knocking, and puts these damn criminals behind bars.
PS My writing is not the best, but I hope for the most part, I was able to get the point across.
submitted by BostonHelper to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Warning! The story of KnCMiner.com deceit continues, as a new saga of fraudulence emerages. If you have an order with them cancel it NOW! Free Second Neptune is another Scam!

A few weeks back, we reported on at the sheer number of customers KnCMiner.com was scamming and screwing.
Here is the original post: Link
The numbers and actions of KnCMiner were just disheartening.
However, more disturbing things have surfaced! A couple months back, and people were getting worried about Neptune delivery and the number of people getting refunds was increasing daily.
In an attempt to control and reduce the numbers, KnCMiner announced that if there were delays in the delivery of Neptunes, they would implement "Plan B". Which would mean customers that were still waiting, would get free hashing from KnCMiner "data center."
Then about a month ago, as those numbers started going back up again, KnCMiner came up with another scheme to once again control and reduce the number of daily orders, by stating that come August, everyone that keeps their Neptune order, will get another one free.
This is what has happened so far.
Here we are in the middle of June, and no customers have received any sort of free hashing, and anyone that has tried to obtain information has been met with no reponse, phone hang ups on the phone, and/or banned from their forums.
You can go to their own forums to see the frustration:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
This promise was a lie to keep people from canceling their orders. NOW they have the Free Neptune lie roaming around, and scamming people into keeping their orders in hope that they can hold off as long as possible, to make the most of the money they have taken from people. People, the Free Neptune is a LIE and a SCAM! BE WARNED!
Please, share these links and stories with others, these guys are ugly and right now they are neither slowing down or care about all the people they have f**ked over.
submitted by BostonHelper to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Everyone is (rightfully) focused on getting companies to accept Bitcoins, but what about consumer protections? Chargebacks exist for a reason.

Take our own bitcoin miners buying from Butterfly Labs, for example.
When they failed to deliver remotely on time, many people wanted refunds. Those that paid with Paypal and credit cards got their refunds, those that paid with Bitcoins did not.
For their next round of production Butterfly then announced that they would only accepted Bitcoin.
Just curious how people are thinking about consumer protections in a Bitcoin world.
submitted by Subduction to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Proof KnCMiner is a scam.

I have been accused by your Lead Mod HighBeamHater, to be making up stuff.
He decided to come over to /bitcoin and act like he was in touch with the state of affairs concerning KnCMiner.
His callousness, showed he was indifferent to the victims of criminals over at KnCMiner, who lost large sums of money. Calling them, "Sour grapes."
I have come to you, to make my case, and after I do, you can decide who is right and who is wrong.
A few things to clear up right away.
First off
-Batch 0 Neptunes where $10,000 USD -Batch 1 Neptunes where $13,000 USD
-The No Refund Policy was quietly implemented, prior to this, their refund policy was, I quote:
"All refunds will be refunded in dollars and you can refund up to shipment".
Here is the evidence KnCMiner deleted and tried to hide: Evidence Link
Everyone was under the impression and rightfully so, that you could cancel your order, as long as they had not shipped your order yet. However, that was another underhanded trick by KnCMiner. KnCMiner is refusing all Refunds, even orders whose status is Paid, and are no where near being shipped.
A lot of people, did not cancel their orders because of the two incentives KnCMiner offered. It was only After they had started their Processing and shipping phase, did they state that you can only pick one or the other.
Here is evidence that customers were mislead:
I have provided you with all the Evidence you requested.
Please, either man up and come to terms that you were wrong on the subject, or continue to be blind to the overwhelming evidence.
For the rest of you, please consider reading the following posts before you decide to deal with KnCMiner.
If you need to catch up read the following posts:
Post A - Lies to keep customers from refund, only to backtrack on the promise
Post B - Censoring customers who are pointing out that the units they are getting for used
Post C - Sends out old used and broken units to customers
Post D - Scamming Customers out of 2 for 1 and Plan B
Post E - Refund Queue a Scam
submitted by BostonHelper to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

Butterfly Labs Pre-Order - Legal Issue.

Thank you in advance for your time.
On December 2nd, 2013, I placed a pre-order for a product that was expected to ship in February-March, based on my order date and time. This information was placed on the website as a caution to buyers. I was OK with this though and placed the pre-order.
The company posted on its forum that (from March 3rd or 5th 2014) it won't even begin shipping the product for another 5 weeks. Putting it in early April. I'm 3+ months in queue on the list for shipment as orders began around October, possibly sooner.
I have contacted the company about getting a refund, as have many other people on the forum. But the only response given is, they will give us a 50% coupon off of another device, only to be placed at the end of the queue, for the additional device.
This product is an ASIC miner, its sole purpose is for mining Bitcoins. When I purchased it, expecting a Feb-Mar delivery, the ROI was still practical. Now it's not. and the offer they are providing doesn't equal what an on time shipment would have been worth.
I get that people might not take this post serious, but it is. This was a $2818.00 investment for a product that serves one purpose, and is now useless.
The company is denying refunds for its lack of meeting its proposed deadlines and is not providing a comparable offer, if it were to ship at its original time.
On the site, the company did state that all sales are final, but they also stated that if I ordered at that time, to expect my product in February or March.
Do I have any legal grounds with this? All i want is a refund.
Edit: Butterfly Labs is located in Leawood, KS. I am located in Florida.
submitted by airborne305 to legaladvice [link] [comments]

BFL tries to use Bitcoin against FTC

BFL tries to use Bitcoin as leverage in their defense. Too bad every Bitcoiner knows their full of shit.
“Butterfly Labs is disappointed in the heavy-handed actions of the Federal Trade Commission. In a rush to judgment, the FTC has acted as judge, jury and executioner, contrary to our intended system of governmental checks and balances. The FTC's current actions are negatively impacting our thousands of customers and our dozens of employees. Their current media campaign should only further alarm a knowing citizenry and raise questions as to why the FTC wouldn't simply let this case play out through the judicial system. That is what Butterfly Labs intends to do.
It appears the FTC has decided to go to war on bitcoin overall, and is starting with Butterfly Labs. Butterfly Labs is being portrayed by the FTC as a bogus and fake company. To the contrary, Butterfly Labs is very real. As pointed out in court filings Butterfly Labs made last night, Butterfly Labs has shipped more than $33 million in products to customers and voluntarily granted refunds approximating $17 million to customers for cancelled orders. Butterfly Labs was literally is in the midst of shipping out completed products to fulfill the remaining millions of dollars of orders on our books and issuing requested refunds, when the FTC effectively closed the doors of Butterfly Labs without any chance to be heard in court.
At this time, Butterfly Labs is cooperating fully with the Temporary Receiver appointed by the Court. A hearing is set for September 29 and Butterfly Labs has asked the Court to allow it to present testimony from key witnesses for the company. Butterfly Labs intends to defend our business and our nascent and promising industry. The government wants to shut Butterfly Labs down, and we are not going away without a fight to vindicate bitcoin, our company, and our employees. Our continued focus is our customers and finding a way to continue to deliver products and processing refunds for those who have requested them.”
source: http://cointelegraph.com/news/112594/butterfly-labs-finally-has-wings-clipped
submitted by SatoshisGhost to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Anybody else getting a refund on their BFL Pre-order?

I would have been happy to recieve the Jalopeno I ordered and paid 100% up front for after only a 4 month delay, but I'm no longer interested in mining.
I checked today to see if I could get a refund on my pre-order (better to get the full amount in bitcoin returned than have to resell it to someone at the new par value of bitcoin (It was I think $6/btc when I pre-ordered) and found this entry in their FAQ http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/
Can I get a refund on my pre-order? Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late November or early December 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
So, I've requested mine.
anybody else? Think they'll actually honor the bitcoin value instead of the USD par? Has this come up before in any meaningful way?
submitted by gamerandy to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Frequently Asked Question: What's an ASIC, FPGA?

So you're sick of just mining on your GPU, and not a fan of the electric bill after a month of mining? There has to be a better option out there than your loud GPU in your gaming computer. There is!
Shortly after GPUs became popular for bitcoin mining, enterprising folks started looking at other things they can re-purpose to mine bitcoins more efficiently. Around mid-year 2011, the first devices sprang up that are called FPGAs or Field Programmable Gate Arrays. These are nothing new to the hobbyist community, they've been around for a while for crackers and other security-conscious folks looking at ways to defeat cryptographic locks. Hey! I know something that uses cryptographic calculations to secure its network! BITCOINS! Yep, so some miners developed their own boards and slapped some FPGA chips on them (most commonly the Spartan-6), and wrote specific firmware and "bitstreams" to more efficiently calculate bitcoin hashes. The first generations were sort of slow, but still they had better efficiency than a GPU. Some of the latest generation included the Icarus boards, Cairnsmore, x6500, and ModMiner Quad.
In early 2012(i think my timeline is right), Butterfly Labs(BFL) was selling their own FPGA miner that hashed at 800 Mhash/s using 80 watts and only cost US$600 amazing! These grew very popular, but people could see that FPGAs still weren't the most efficient way to hash their shares. BFL then announced that they would be designing their own chips that would be orders of magnitude faster than anything ever seen. These would be the ASICs (or Application Specific Integrated Circuit)everyone is raving about. ASICs are--as the name implies--specifically designed for one thing, and one thing only. Bitcoins. This is all it can do, and can't really be repurposed like an FPGA to other applications. Who wouldn't want a US$150 "Jalapeno" that hashes at 3.5 GIGAhashes/s using only power from a USB port?? Crazy! So summer 2012, BFL says they will ship before Christmas. Various things happen and we now still don't have any confirmed ship dates from BFL.
A few other companies have sprouted up, ASICminer which I believe is developing their own chips to mine themselves, but in a responsible way as to not threaten the network with a sudden influx of hashing. bASIC was a fiasco that was developed by the creator of the ModMiner Quad(which is actually a fantastic miner, I own one, and love it.) where he took many preorders, promised lots of people amazing ASIC performance, but in early 2013 the stress of the whole endeavour got to him and he gave up, refunded money(I think it's still being refunded now, or maybe it's been cleared up already.)
Avalon is the only company we know has ASIC mining hardware in the wild. It is not certain exactly how many are out there, but they have been confirmed by independent sources. The Avalon units are expensive(75 BTC) and have been in limited production runs (or batches) of a few hundred units that were pre-sold out very quickly.
All of this info is gleaned from the Custom Hardware forum over at bitcointalk.org over the past year or so I've been involved in bitcoin. I may have some facts wrong, but this is the gist of the situation and hopefully gives you an insight on the state of the hardware war against bitcoin
Thanks for reading!
submitted by purelithium to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

This is my understanding of the current state of BitMining, how far off am I? What would you recommend for a new miner with a bit of cash?

I'm newish to bitcoin and mining in general but this is what I've figured out so far, am i close?
If Butterfly labs does ship; or if Avalon does a 4th batch, and either option takes 2-3 months to ship and arrive at the door, would it be too late for new miners to jump on the ASIC bandwagon? I seems like mining is a race to get the newest equipment first and cashing out the initial investment early.
Is this a good summary of the current state of bit mining, or am i completely off?
I'm looking at getting into mining; however i feel like I'm so far behind the ASIC wagon that if i did get a ASIC system, it would take a long time to break even and "the next best thing" might be out by then?
If it makes sense and will have a decent break even point (60-90days) I have about $1800 i can invest in mining from selling some stocks that have been stagnant for a few months. What would you guys suggest?
submitted by eoJmIiH to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

How to Cancel My BF Labs Order?

Hi Reddit,
On May 6 I ordered the 5 GH/s Bitcoin Miner from Butterfly. I paid using PayPal, to the sum of $308.00. After a little over a month, I contacted them asking where my item was. They responded that I was given an order estimate of over 2 months and that my order status could be checked on their site (always "processing").
After 2 months, I started asking again, and it took them quite a long time to get back to me. I also had read within the few weeks before that of BF Labs' troubles, having come here and seen in the NY Times. They finally got back to me last week and told me that they could not provide me with any sort of shipping estimate, but they'd tell me when my item ships so I can track it. I told them that due to the time-sensitive nature of the product (aka it gets less valuable the longer I wait) and their inability to even give me some sort of estimate on my purchase, that I wanted a full refund.
They told me that I agreed when I purchased it that all sales were final. I went to my bank but they informed me I needed to go to PayPal since they are the ones who did the transaction. PayPal told me that they don't handle disputes for hardware/software since "it is usually a misunderstanding." They said I could send a letter to the company, which I did, and then PayPal immediately closed the case saying it was more than 45 days since the transaction.
So, whether or not any of you think I "deserve" a refund in this case, I am still going to attempt to get myself one. I think most people can agree that buying products where you pay up front and receive what you paid for "sometime in the future" is not an appropriate business model.
Now that my bank and PayPal and the company won't help me, what can I do to get my refund? The Better Business Bureau? FTC? I really have no idea.
Thanks for all your help, guys!
submitted by Screamteam411 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

BFL's illegal refund policy.

So I tried to cancel my BFL preorder today, and I was met with this wall of text.
|While we reserve the right to handle refund requests on a case by case basis, pre-ordered products are non-refundable as is clearly stated at the time of purchase. The reason for this is that pre-order funds are used in the build process which makes it impractical to reverse. It's also been observed that some small number of customers have placed orders as part of a bitcoin price hedging strategy which involves multiple requests to cancel and then re-enstate their orders as market conditions change. This has created an enormous customer service burden which is resolved by enforcing the all sales final policy. Some customers have asked why we've given order cancellation refunds to others, but they can't get one. The answer is that we had opted to process order cancellation requests during our long product development phase as a courtesy to those who endured the stress of the unknown. However, once full production began, a notice was sent out advising that orders would be shipped as produced according to the order queue and that if anyone was unwilling to endure the wait, they had a final opportunity to cancel. Customers were required to positively confirm their desire to remain in the order queue and accept the order terms. Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer." As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected. However, we have added a new feature to your account dashboard. You have the option of selling your order. There are more details and instructions on how to do so on our facebook page. Announcing a Pre-Order Marketplace
New customers frequently ask us how they can move up in the order queue, and at times offer us more money to do so. Of course, we refuse. We also have customers who decide to sell their orders on eBay or other venues. Unfortunately, doing so requires a secure form of transfer, and the trust factor simply makes it difficult for a seller to find buyers.
Butterfly Labs is excited to announce a platform that will help merge the needs of both parties. Starting today, a seller will be able to announce the sale of their pre-order position in our classifieds forum. They will establish the terms of sale and make the deal on their own. Once a deal has been made, they will use the transfer system in their account Dashboard to transfer an order to a new owner. When both parties verify and agree to the terms, the order will be moved to the buyer's account.
The order transfer system was set in place September 10, 2013.Butterfly Labs will only provide the platform for the order transfer to take place. We are not responsible for any deals made between our customers. Use of the order transfer system is solely the risk of the parties making the order transfer deal. Buyer's must agree to the original terms of the sale, and specifically to the no refund policy. Here is the relevant FTC guideline text: "when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
Combine this with the FAQ from the website http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/ :
|Pre-Order terms for new orders were updated on the website on April 1, 2013. The terms state, "I accept the terms of the sale and understand that all sales are final and there is a backlog of orders and production & delivery of my order may take 2 months or longer." As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise. The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed. In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity. Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected. Here is the relevant FTC guideline text: "when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."
I went and read the http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule and it states that if the consumer agrees to an indefinite shipping period aka "2 or more months" they are legally allowed to seek a refund up until their order is shipped.
What to do if you want a refund: File a complaint with the FTC https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1 File a complaint with your state's attorny general. File a complaint with the BBB. If you paid with a credit card there are often laws about being charged for a product before it is shipped to you, contact your credit card company. If you paid with paypal file a complaint with them.
Hope this helps someone else, and the FTC, BBB and attorney generals take action on behalf of consumers, not individuals, so hopefully if more people take action something may get done.
submitted by air139 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

HOWTO: File a complaint with Konsument Verket over KnC Miner delayed shipping and refusal of refund to G3 buyers.

Hey all,
So I bought in to the 3rd generation Neptune and I was okay with the production delay, but when they mentioned that they were giving G1 and G2 buyers extra units from G3, possibly pushing my delivery back further, and definitely impacting my profit margin, I started pursuing a refund.
I'll spare you all the details of that attempt, except to say it didn't happen despite two weeks of once a day back-and-forth emailing. In the EU, consumers have a right to a refund of an item purchased online up to 14 days after it has been shipped.
Consequently, I ended communication with KnC informing them of my intentions and began reaching out to the Konsument Verket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Agency_(Sweden).
I first initiated contact with them through an email to: [email protected]
In that, I wrote:
First, thank you for taking the time to read this. My name is sharpie32 and I am a US citizen who conducted an online purchase from the company KnCMiner. They quoted delivery of the product I purchased to arrive in July, or more specifically "1 month after the end of Q2." This has recently changed without warning to a later date ultimately making the product no longer valuable to me. I've attempted to obtain a refund from them, as I understand my right to do so. They have outright refused. I made it clear that I would return the product and expect a refund. They have refused that as well, stating they would wait for me to pay to have it shipped to me again. It's important to note that I purchased the product valued at $6,131.80 which includes $136.80 in shipping. It's also important to note that I made this purchase in BItcoins. I found this email through this page: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/rights/index_en.htm Please help me and advise me on how to find a civil resolution to this. 
They responded to me by providing the following link: http://www.konsumentverket.se/Vagledning--kontakt/ Additionally, they wrote:
Thank you for your letter. Complaints from the public are valuable and helpful to us. We have registered your complaint in our database and it may be an errand of our supervision. The Swedish Consumer Agency does not have the possibility to answer individual questions or to intervene in individual disputes. Below is some information on where to turn to. 
At that point, I completed the form they linked me to, which follows here: http://www.konsumentverket.se/Vagledning--kontakt/ I want to make this knowledge available to everyone here, because I know what it feels like to be fucked over by Butterfly Labs and MtGox. Wherever this complaint goes, I'll post an update. I would appreciate it if anyone in the same boat would be willing to repeat my steps.
submitted by sharpie32 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

BFL accepts Dwolla for payment - my email (and response) to Dwolla reporting them as fraudulent

My email: (feel free to copy, improve, and use to send to [email protected] - I'd recommend avoiding alot of emotional opinions)
I came across a page that is using your service to process payments, that at the very least may be violating your terms of service, and is very likely a willful act of fraud.
Please see https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/1-gh-cloud-hosted-bitcoin-hashing-power.html. Butterfly Labs is offering hosting Bitcoin mining as a service. While technically a service, and not the sale of Bitcoins, I believe this weak distinction at best. As I understand it, your Terms of Service at https://www.dwolla.com/tos prohibits the sale of Bitcoins without special permission:
"Act as a marketplace and/or exchange for virtual currency products without Dwolla's prior written consent, and FinCEN registration if applicable;"
Another concern I'd like for Dwolla to take a look at is the statement, "All sales are final." The following term of service seems contradictory to this:
"You understand that We do not warrant the transactions and that these transactions are subject to ACH chargeback processes. You agree and warrant that any chargebacks received by Us can and will be debited from Your Dwolla account..."
More importantly is this clause in your Terms of Service:
"Defraud Us or other Dwolla Users in any way."
Butterfly Labs has a long history of making promises and then failing to follow through. Every product they have ever produced has been offered under a strict pre-order offer. They offer no guarantee as to availability date, and claim all sales to be final, refusing requested refunds. As a matter of fact, BFL frequently launches new products, under pre-order of course, before existing orders have shipped. These timelines are excessively long, oftentimes resulting in a product that doesn't ship for over a year after the original order. This for a product that BFL promises in weeks or a few months, and that is time-sensitive, as the value of the product reduces over time.
You'll see that PayPal, a common payment option, is no longer offered. This is likely due to to a grassroots effort among unsatisfied BFL customers with PayPal issuing over $300,000 in refunds in the past week. There is a lot of information about this online; http://bflrefund.me is a good starting point.
I cannot predict the future, but I suspect in the future, many unhappy BFL preorder customers will similarly be contacting Dwolla for refunds.
I'd encourage you to consider whether Butterfly Labs has a high risk profile, and whether being associated with this type of company is damaging to Dwolla's reputation.
Dwolla's response:
Thank you for that information and feedback, we will pass this along to our fraud and security team.
Sincerely, Dwolla Support
submitted by cfbilly to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

IAma victim of Avalon & ButterflyLabs

Hey all, I am one of many of you who have been screwed by these two companies, I am at a great loss on what to do since I invested my whole savings of $5000+ between diy chips and boards and ButterflyLabs miners that I will not receive for another two months right before being layed off my job. I have requested refunds with BFL in desperation and they refuse to refund even after they promised me 90 days back in May. I also requested a refund from Steve (steamboat) with his groupbuy and have been denied a refund because I am a cutoff customer.
After spending my savings and losing my job I am at risk of losing all my utilities and wont be able to afford internet nor electricity to even use these miners.
At the time I could have afforded to lose what I invested and had what I thought was a stable job where I had worked for 5 years. At the time I wasn't that worried because I was supposedly going to get these miners a month ago that would have more than helped me and my baby daughter depending on me, how foolish I turned out to be.. Now I am seeking advice on what I can do to recover my losses and get some bills paid before November 1st. I have posted a few questions on bitcointalk regarding suing bfl in small claims with no good advice. I paid in bitcoin and don't have the comfort of PayPal refunding me. Will I be able to sue them in Pennsylvania or will I need to fly to Kansas? Does anyone here know josh or steve(steamboat) and could help me with a refund? Any advice or assistance would be appreciated. Thankyou Bitcoin Community
submitted by defconoi to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

My (unique) experience with BFL

My business relationship with Butterfly Labs permanently ended today, so I thought I'd break up the monotony of BFL refund advice and stories with the tale of a guy who bought from BFL and came out ahead in the end.
Last summer, I had my first real job, and was just finding out about this bitcoin business. I thought it was really cool, and wanted to get into mining. Back then, graphics cards were standard, and FPGAs were at the high end of the market. BFL was offering the best price/performance with their original FPGA single, which gave you like 800 MH/s or something. They also had a "coming soon" placeholder for their ASIC line, but not so much as a case rendering or preorder button yet.
Inevitably, I asked whether these people were legit. Google turned up threads where people dismissed it as a scam, a few brave souls preordered the box, and after a few delays, it came. Okay, a lot of delays. But the product existed, and that's all that matterd to me. I thought on it for a week or two, then decided to go for it.
So I went back to the website intending to buy a Single, but while I was in indecision, pre-orders had started. It was August 8, and they said they'd be shipping by October 2012 (lol). I had to decide whether to get the Single right away, then do a trade-in later, or go straight for a pre-order of four Jalapenos. Both cost the same. I fully expected some delays on the ASICs, but fugued they'd be out the door by February 2013, if not sooner (lol). So I figured I'd be better off having an early place on the ASIC pre-order list than to get the FPGA, but be near the end of the trade-in list. Call it a dumb decision, but if I hadn't gone that way, none of the following would have happened.
Time passed. The day the Little Single was announced, I switched my order to that. More time passed. I read Jody's blog every day. I was there for every Two More Weeks that ever came out of BFL's urban farming mouthpiece. And then, one day, nearly a year after this story began, on June 12, 2013, as if by a miracle, there was an e-mail in my inbox that said my order had been shipped.
But it wasn't right. They shipped me four Jalapenos, but I had changed my order to a Little Single. Little Singles weren't even shipping yet. I sent them an email explaining what had happened and asking them what I should do. Two weeks went by without a response, and the package came. I sent them another email with an update, then proceeded to plug all my new gear in. One of them was defective and mined only 200 MH/s for some reason. But the other three got about 6 GH/s. I waited for a response to my emails, and mined.
Weeks passed. Little Singles started shipping. I started phoning the office. I don't know what the deal is with their phones, but I only got voicemail (which they don't seem to check), until one day I discovered that if you phone them 3-5 times in rapid succession, you get through to someone. I told him my story. He said he'd look into it and get back to me later that day. I waited a week, then called back. He said that I could either ship back the defective one, and they'd send me three more Jalapenos, or I could ship back all four and they'd give me my Little Single. I asked how I'd be compensated for shipping. He said that I wouldn't be. I informed him that he was full of shit. He said he'd send me a fedex label. That afternoon, for the first time, possibly ever, Butterfly Labs followed through on a promise.
I waited two days, mined my eighth bitcoin, then shipped my gear back. They sent me my Little Single, I plugged it in, and that should have been the end of the story. At that point, I considered myself to have come out even. I had to stop mining for two weeks to do a product trade, but on the other hand, I started mining -albeit at a lower hash rate - sooner than I otherwise would have.
But then, two weeks ago... Remember those emails I sent back at the end of June? Well, Jody replied to the second one. Sorry about the mix-up, she said. Hope it's all right with you if we send you two extra Jalapenos, so that you needn't ship anything back. She wan't aware that the case had been resolved over the phone.
So what would you do in this situation? Yeah, I took 'em. They arrived today and are happily hashing away over in my little bookshelf bitcoin farm. As of now, I have 2.2x my original investment (including shipping and customs fees) in bitcoin, and I feel like a winner. I decided Butterfly Labs doesn't deserve the honesty I would probably have extended to most any other company.
So yeah, that's the long-winded story of how I profited from BFL's incompetence. Hope you enjoyed.
submitted by Bucky__Lastard to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Im buying a lot of 100 grade A BFL chips who wants to add to my order?

So as I am sure most of you know Josh from Butter Fly Labs just announced they will now be selling ASIC chips in bulk. However you can only buy a minimum of a 100 at a time. That lead me to start doing some math and I am going to give it a shot. So this is where you come in, being that I already met the minimum I am opening the door for anyone who wants to add to my exciting order. This is the important part! I will only be doing this once and not if I can’t be in the first round of ordering. So what does that mean for you? When you place your order know that if I do not get my order in the first day “to assure premium placement” I will not be ordering at all and you will get a full refund that day. Now on to pricing I’m asking 1 BTC per grade A chip and for that price that comes with schematics directly from BFL and USPS Priority flat rate shipping US only. I do not now when exactly they will go on sale but it will be in June. May be tomorrow may be end of the month so get while the getting is good. I’m sure you have a million questions https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales.html To place an order please privet message me with how unit(s) you would like and an email address you would like payment link to go to.
I will fill in form after order is placed and BEFORE payment is made. After Payment Is made A notarized copy for you to keep and a copy to be notarized and returned will be sent to you to complete the agreement. The final version will have my name, office phone number, and an address to mail signed agreement.
Letter of intent This letter is to provide assurance of completion of agreement between _______________________ and ______________________. On this date ________ an agreement was made that ___ ButterFly Labs grade “A” Asic chip units where preordered for the price of 1 Bitcoin each totaling ___ Bitcoin(s). All pre orders are final unless the unlikely event of non-satisfactory placement in ordering position which will result in a 100% refund. Seller name __________________________ signature _________________________ Date _______ Space for Notary:
Buyers name _________________________ signature __________________________ Date _______ Space for Notary:
submitted by Bisman83 to BitcoinMining [link] [comments]

How to: Mine Bitcoins with Raspberry Pi and Butterfly Labs ... Inside the Butterfly Labs (BFL) 25GH/s 2012 FPGA Mini-Rig (NOT ASIC) Butterfly Labs Ruined: Bitcoin Fans Deal with an Incompetent Company Bryan Micon Sneaks into CES 2013 to interview bitcoin ... How to setup a 60 GH/s Butterfly Labs BFL Single SC ASIC Miner

Butterfly Labs is operational and issuing refunds. I just received HUGE refund in Bitcoin. If you're owed a refund, keep an eye out for correspondence from BFL. I just received an email from them along with a huge refund in Bitcoin. What a great day to receive an exchange-rate-based refund! EDIT: people are (understandably) asking for proof. Happy to show a mod the txid/emails if interested ... In a move likely to appease the FTC, Butterfly Labs announced a new refund schedule [blockquote]Refund and rebate payments will be processed in the order received (including those on hold during the FTC action). We will resume paying refunds and rebates as soon as we’re operationally ready. We anticipate being able to start paying refunds in bitcoin in January. Because the cost of the ... Butterfly Labs. Home; Animals; Cars; Celebs; Games; Health; House; Lifestyle; Sport; Style; Tech; 6 Ways You Can Get Rich by Selling Stuff on eBay – 2020 Guide . Walter E. Land-October 25, 2020. How to Have a Safe 2020 Holiday Season. How to Determine Credibility of Online Casinos – 2020 Guide. 8 Tips For Finding Financing Options For Small Businesses – 2020 Guide. 5 DIY Ideas to Remodel ... This page was last edited on 9 March 2015, at 00:00. Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 unless otherwise noted.; Privacy policy; About ... Butterfly Labs (BFL) is a company that creates Bitcoin mining hardware. One of the earliest bitcoin mining hardware manufacturers offering ASIC devices, Butterfly Labs have come under fire from bitcoin miners who have had to wait patiently due to lengthy production and delivery delays. The company is headquartered is located in Kansas, United States.

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How to: Mine Bitcoins with Raspberry Pi and Butterfly Labs ...

Check out my latest Raspberry Pi project using a Butterfly labs Jalapeno 5 Gh/s Bitcoin miner and a Raspberry Pi Model B running Raspbian. Buy a bitcoin mine... Butterfly Labs 5 GH/s ASIC Bitcoin Miner (Jalapeno) Review - Duration: 11:42. andrewesquivel 22,125 views. 11:42. A Look at the BFL Jalapeno and Little Single ASIC Bitcoin Miners - Duration: 20 ... Over the past few years, a company called Butterfly Labs has been promising to produce and deliver ASIC Bitcoin mining hardware, only to be repeatedly delayed. Many people waited nearly a year for ... Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube. [full story: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0] I go to CES to ask Butterfly Labs to show me the hardware they brought to display and to get t...